As a modeler, do you think a ship / boat modeler is more of an Artisan, more of a Shipwright, more of a Craftsman, or a mixture? Ship and boat modeling has always been referred to as a "Hobby". While some other crafts are often referred to as "Art", like stain glass. Both require a great deal of skill and an eye for accuracy. I suppose a model shipwright is a little of each.

One thing that all modelers have in common is patience (one would hope) and an eye for details. When guests view one of my models and ask how long did it take you to build it, and I tell them the amount of hours it took, they look at me like I'm nuts. They then ask how much it would sell for. Even if you did want to sell a model, you could never charge enough for all the pains-taking, some times frustrating, hours you put into a project.

I think most of us do this for the love of crafting a beautiful, historically accurate (as posible) ship or boat model. Not to make us rich.

Take the poll, and leave a comment if you like.
John

I think ship modeling and miniature in general is a display of craftmanship. In fact u make a copy of a already existing subject.

The Leonardo made the mona lisa, so he's an artist. The fraude that made the falsefication is a craftsman. The engineer that designed the Victory is a shipwright, the modeler making a copy is a craftsman.

Are modelers artists, no i don't think so, being to artistic and soon the border is crossed to fiction. Building a model reguires the ability to have knowledge and understanding in the work from the shipwright, who build the original subject. So you need to be a researcher to interpret the desing and historical information and a craftsman to implement the research from the model.

It maybe not wildy known that if a ship is scratch built and all decks and fittings are inculded in the model then it is termed to a work of art as it is would be a sculpture.Such people I think you will find can apply to be recognised as Marine Artists

C++']I think ship modeling and miniature in general is a display of craftmanship. In fact u make a copy of a already existing subject.

The Leonardo made the mona lisa, so he's an artist. The fraude that made the falsefication is a craftsman. The engineer that designed the Victory is a shipwright, the modeler making a copy is a craftsman.

Are modelers artists, no i don't think so, being to artistic and soon the border is crossed to fiction. Building a model reguires the ability to have knowledge and understanding in the work from the shipwright, who build the original subject. So you need to be a researcher to interpret the desing and historical information and a craftsman to implement the research from the model.All true. But what if you have done a Diorama of a Boston harbor scene from the 1810's. No particular ship or ships in the harbor. Just generic ships, boats, docks, perhaps figures of people. Or maybe a Diorama of the construction of a ship in dry dock in Spain. Again, one would like to be accurate as to scale and of history, but this is where not only your skills as a Craftsman and Model Shipwright come into play, but your skills as an Artisan as well. Or as Dinny referred to as "Marine Artists".
John

Hahaha, this is one of those discussions, like the famous "lunix versus windows" discussion.

Ofcourse it depends, carving all the decorations yourself, then you qualify to be a artist. Building a diorama like in your example requires artistic skills, making the sea, sculpting and painting the figures. But the fact remains that the effort in building the sole construction of the houses and ships of that period consists mainly of good research and craftmanship, That's my personal oppinion ofcourse.

The definition for being a artist or art in general is not wel defined, some see a wonderful piece of art, others see a pile of garbage.

In the context of building ship's from kit's, that's what we're doing after all, being a artist is surely not high on the "you need to be a..." list.

PS. I'm happy that some hobbies requires little artistic skills, because i'm a crap artist ;)

I wasn't trying to demograte the skill(craftmanship) in modelshipwrighting as I know only too well the amount of "crafts" needed,however some have found that they have found it an advantage to be an artist in selling thier models.

Art,like beauty,is in the eye of the beholder.Cheers! John. :=)

Art, like beauty,is in the eye of the beholder. Cheers! John. :=) Couldn't have said it any better!

As soon as we develop a style that is recognizable to our viewers and patron, we begin to express ourselves with each model bearing that signature style. Then we are artists. Many of us are already there. As far as our craft, we are defined as marine artists posessing a skill that others may not wish, or are unable to cultivate.
Craftsmen and artisans one and all, regardless of classroom art defintions.

I think that if you build a model from plans that you sketched up.
It meets ANY camparison to a painter or a sculptor.
You have built the model with just commerical supplies.

You have created a OBJECT. Therefore, you are a Artist. =D>

:walk: Happy feet!!

When you build a model ship, your building it with your hands, another words, it's hand crafted, which would make you a Craftsman. You also do the researching and redesigning to build it the way it should be built, which would make you a Model Shipwright. While doing all this, you are painting, staining, weathering, etc.... all to create the picture that best appeals to you, something that when finished, can never be copied to complete exactness. Therefore, you are creating a picture in someones mind of what that ship represents. Not a piece of furniture, but a representation of the past. Hence, an Artist. So, I say a little of all three.

Regards,
Gerald :build:

I feel that the scratch builder is an artist as well as a craftsman. An craftsman because all the components of the model have to be individually made to produce the end product. Only the finished model could be described as a work of art in the eye of the beholder.

Definitley all three, artisan, caftsman and artist....
Woodworking skills are a definite advantage, direction of grain, how to cut end grain, how the wood behaves, etc.

The ability to visualise and the ability to think in advance and carefully consider the consequences of ones actions.... (Before acting!!)

Even a kit is "Scratchbuilt" to a certain extent, even if providing the wood for planking, some dowelling and some fittings, that must be carefully dealt with to provide the required result, I'd say reasonably close to a scratchbuild....
If the modeller has to cut, shape and carfully fit, rather than just cut and fit laser or die cut parts, it is more of a scratchbuild in my books anyway....

A work of art on completion? Definitley!!

Cheers....HOF.

Nice question.....my 2c worth.....

An artist creates something that hasn't been created before, in a design sense. Since we (I use the "royal" we) are reproducing something that has already been created, we are not really being artistic as such (the aforementioned diorama scenerio accepted.....to a degree) :realcool: .

But, we ship-modellers have technical skills that can 're-create' the artistry of the naval architect that designed the original, and in many ways enhance the original artistic vision by realising something that might be 'technically feasible', beyond the original designer's capacity. In that vein I'd put 'us' in the category of an artisan. That is, somebody skilled in the technical aspects of woodworking, complemented with individual skills that can in fact interpret and enhance the original design.

An 'artisan' moniker automatically infers the 'craftsmanship' that denotes technical competance, but an 'artisan' adds value to that. By definition, the artisan is a combination of an 'art'ist and techni'cian'.

The result of what we produce can, of course, be regarded as 'art', appreciated by those that lack the technical understanding and skill to do what we do.....so in that regard, yes, we are 'artists' at the popular level.

As a (past) shipwright by trade (but a complete novice when it comes to this 'ere modeling game) it feels good to espouse my take take on it :wink:

Cheers - Mick

Not to mention The Model shipwright magazine, which has been regarded as the world’s leading ship modelling publication since its launch in 1972.. : )

Since the question is about a name, not a quality analysis, I'd say that a Model ShipWright would be most like a "real" ShipWright. Is a ShipWright a craftsman? Of course. Is a ShipWright a type of artist? Of course. So if it's quality that's being asked for, then that would be a different question. But an artist might well create something that is beautiful to look at, but would NOT be functional as a ship. A craftsman can certainly do a tremendous job of workmanship, but it also may well not be functional as a ship. Thus my definition.

i agree with your definitions totally

To me, ship modeling is my art form. It's a craft of course since you fabricate it with materials but so is oil painting or sculpting. Is it a "hobby" ? Are oil paintimg or sculpting "hobbies"? Are they toys? Hardly ! But the sellers have to categorize them somehow so they group them with "hobbies" for marketing. Those who see my models remark "Wow ! That seems like a lot of work !" To me it's not "work" but hours of pleasure which sadly come to an end when a model is finished requiring thinking about the next ship. Working on my ship is an adventure. I feel I am aboard that ship as ship's carpenter , captain, owner. I'm in charge and I decide how it will be built.
An extra bedroom is now the "Maritime Room"..........BRINY........Bernie

As a senior judge, I think that Gerald has it bang to rights as we say,when judging a model of any type,ancient or modern, ALL aspects of that model are taken into consideration

I must also point out that not every model uses WOOD in its construction any more than the real thing.